Keeping Heritage Alive in a Digital World

Stories are how we connect with each other. The Saskatchewan History & Folklore Society understands this well, using communications, especially social media, to share heritage stories in ways that feel alive, relevant, and connected to everyday life.

In this episode, SaskCulture's Busayo Osobade (communications manager) and Ana Cristina Camacho (communications coordinator) are joined by Kristin Enns-Kavanagh, SHFS executive director, and Board president Jessica Dewitt to discuss the successes and challenges of marketing in the non-profit space.

Related Links:

Visit: www.saskculture.ca

Read Engage Magazine online!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

You are invited to engage with SaaS Culture. Right here is where we share inspiring stories from leaders, creators, and volunteers who are shaping Saskatchewan's arts, heritage, and cultural communities. You'll hear about the incredible projects and diverse activities made possible through the funding from the Saskatchewan's Trust Fund for Sport, Culture, and Recreation. SAS Culture is grateful for the privilege of supporting groups and cultures across the lands covered by Treaties 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 10. The traditional territories of the Cree, Dakota, Dene, Lakota, Nakota, and Soto people, and the homeland of the Metis.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

I'm Anna Christina Camacho. I also work at SAS Culture as the communications coordinator. Thank you for everyone that's joining us today. Today's episode is going to be all about communications.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

That's right, all about communications. And together we've shared stories of people doing amazing stuff, via Engage, you know, Hannoi Reports, and even this podcast. And we see all these great stories happening within the sector. But what we've also understood is sometimes these stories don't reach the wider audience.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Absolutely. And that's also something that we've uh seen here at Susculture. I remember when I first joined the team, um, something that we were talking about a lot was that we weren't reaching that many young people with our communications. And that's of course a growing audience. So something that we wanted to be doing more of. And I mean, over even just over these past few years, we've made so many changes to try and um connect with youth more. So things like, like you mentioned, this podcast, things like um new social media channels like TikTok and Blue Sky. And yeah, just a lot of changes that we made because we noticed that our stories weren't reaching as far as they could.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

That's right. And speaking about TikTok, because I remember when we made that decision, especially with culture days, it was based on the research that we had done, and then we saw that we were reaching a lot of younger audiences. And so the question was, where are they? Where are these younger audiences? Where are they? Where where how do we need to reach them? And that's how we started TikTok. And of course, you were very involved in the work, and a lot of these were trial and error. Sometimes we would do stuff and it wouldn't make sense, but um at the end of the day, we saw that we were reaching those audiences and it really all those head for efforts made sense in the end. So um, what is for example, from that call today's example, what it's taught me is that um if you want to connect, you have to think about who you're speaking to.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Exactly. Knowing your audience changes everything. So that's going to be the first step. Yeah, it really does. And that's what today's episode is about. We'll be chatting with Kristen and Jessica from the Saskatchewan History and Folklore Society. And for the rest of the episode, we'll just be calling them SHFS for short, or you might hear us say History and Folklore Society. This conversation is all about how SHFS is using communications, especially social media, to tell stories that feel alive, current, and connected to people's everyday lives.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

We are really glad to be joined today by Kristine and Jessica from SHFS. Uh, we'll let you introduce yourselves and share a little bit about your connection to the organization. Uh, so we're gonna give you, you you do it, you go ahead, you share your car, your connection, what you do at SHFS.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

Sure. Kristen, you want to start? Sure. I'm Kristen Ann S Kavner, and I'm the executive director for the Saskatchewan History and Folklore Society.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

And I am Jessica DeWitt. I'm an independent scholar, environmental historian, editor, consultant, etc. And I am currently the president of the Saskatchewan History and Folklore Society.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Awesome. So before we go into the questions, Christine and Jessica, there was something that really caught my eyes, or I got just got interested in it. So you have a communication, Jessica. Thank you. One of the board members at SHFS. So tell us a little bit about how that um how that has helped in some ways having that specialty of that understanding and knowledge. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

So um, I guess like I I first started uh SA SHFS as the editor of folklore magazine. That was my funding during my PhD from 2014 through 2017. So I would say that first of all, my involvement with this organization was fundamental in setting up the career trajectory that I have taken. Um, so that kind of started me off really getting embedded in public history as well as editing. Um, and then also um I've worked extensively now for over a decade in social media circles for history and other humanities um organizations and institutions. Um and I think that my experience doing social media, first of all, there are a lot, not a lot of people in the heritage and history spaces I find that are comfortable in communication settings, whether that's, you know, actually being on podcasts like this, or, you know, understanding social media algorithms or understanding, you know, like the best way to do graphics or what have you. And so I find a lot of value in being able to both um be very situated in history and heritage, but also have like really have a mind for these other factors, which are so critical in um being able to communicate with the public, to engage the public, to bring the public into participation um in the age that we are living in. Um so I think that I often can bring that kind of um extra set of eyes for Kristen and other members on the board, et cetera, to kind of help with um understanding how we're perceived and how we can communicate our identity.

unknown 7:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Awesome. I I I know communication sometimes is like the last thing that people think about. Yes. And it's I wish people understand it's a big deal. Like it is a big deal. Social media is a big deal, communications is a big deal. So if um organizations are thinking about that and when they're you know attracting people to come to their board or whatever, they need to be thinking about that. That's what I just feel like like think about some special fields that you want to bring in, uh, communications background and all of that. So that's what we're gonna be talking about today.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Can I can I add something really quickly? I think it also it also shows that there is a place for people to get involved with other skill sets, like not just because you're not trained in history, etc., doesn't mean that you can't get like that the skill set that you do have doesn't apply to this this area of heritage, etc. Because we need we truly need everyone involved. So if everyone is just book trained on history or folklore or what have you, that's not that's not exceptionally useful. So, anyways, I just want to add that.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Um, I'm gonna ask Christine uh a question and feel free to jump in, uh Jessica. So for listeners for our audience who might not know history and folklore very well, how would you describe the organization today? And you know, compared to what is what it's been a few years ago, we've seen a lot of changes. We've seen all the successes and all the great looks. So, what would you want to tell an audience about our audience about um you know describing what SHFS does and compared to a few years, what are the changes?

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Yeah, well, I I would say so. I would the what I always tell people when they ask, you know, what's the South Kistrian folklore society? I always say, Well, we started in 1957 and started by a bunch of folklorists, and some historians kind of muscled their way in there and created this organization. And um historically, and and to some extent when I started, um, but it was changing already when I started, um, there's always been a very uh like it was very, very based in like pioneering settler stories and agricultural narratives, um, and sort of specific to specific, for the most part, specific parts of Saskatchewan as well, too. So um, as time has gone on, um, we've been moving on from that and working to have a bit of a bit more um multiple perspectives kind of shared in the sort of stories that we share. And when I first started, um I spent a whole bunch of time talking to members and board members and getting a sense of what's what does the organization do that is that nobody else can. And it was we're the people stories organization, right? So a museum has artifacts, we do people stories, and which, of course, and I knew once I knew that, I knew that we had everything we needed to move forward um and kind of grow out of our roots because um because everyone has a story, and people love hearing other people's stories and understanding how different people negotiate the problems of life, and so yeah, so it's it's been kind of a a journey since then that's definitely not over yet.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Awesome, absolutely, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

I think that it's always been noticeable that you guys are an organization that for which like it's not the last thing that you're thinking about. Communications. It's uh but uh definitely in the last maybe couple years or so, it's been even more you know, more of a push to bring communications forward, change the ways that you're sharing stories. Um so yeah, what uh could you talk a bit about that change and maybe what uh prompted that? Uh what yeah made you feel that it was time to change things up.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Um I'll I'll just start off by saying that it's really part of this transfer, this this not transformation, but transition that Kristen was describing over the last decade or so, where we realized that we weren't necessarily representing everyone and that we needed to change that, first of all. Secondly, that we had to do a lot of internal work on ourselves to be um safe stewards for sharing everyone's stories, because um doing it unmindfully can cause a lot of harm as well. So we've worked a lot of internal, done a lot of internal work on our, you know, our anti-racism strategic plan, et cetera, and figuring out how we can better serve everyone in Saskatchewan. And part of that is boosting our communications beyond, you know, our core set of members. Um so I know, like as I said, I was I was, you know, editor back in 2014. And, you know, the major change that has happened over the last year is our folklore redesign. Kristen has also focused a lot on creating new social media campaigns, et cetera. But you know, even back 10 years ago, we knew that folklore was beginning, the magazine was beginning to look a bit outdated, that we needed to do something if we're going to keep more people um coming to the to the magazine. Um, and uh so finally being able to get the capacity together, to get the funds together, um, to make that happen over the last year has been so critical and took a lot of background work and was not a fast process. Um, Kristen, do you want to speak more to some of that process of the redesign, et cetera?

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Yeah, absolutely. Um, part of it was just yeah, being appealing to to new audiences. And of course, we kind of live in an age where you have to be able to communicate to audiences that have different, very different expectations about um how they get their information. So we have audiences all the way from folks who aren't on the internet at all to folks who are very much on the internet. So we need to have all of our communications need to reach all those people in different ways. And so, yeah, so we worked really hard to revamp the physical appearance of folklore, and we also um worked to, and I think Jessica knows this as she was an editor, we had to work on and are still working on the stories that we tell and the way we tell them. So, like I always like to say, history is like detective work, and so when you um when you get a new piece of information, sometimes it changes, it doesn't change the names, the dates, and places, you know, history doesn't change, but the meaning of what happened in history changes when you you bring in different perspectives. And so trying to have that come through in the magazine and trying to have voices come through in the magazine so that anyone can open it up and say, Oh, there's there's things for me in here. That's what we really want. Um, and that's what we're still really working on.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah, yeah. I really like that uh comment where you said history is investigative work. Um what I can get from what you both were talking about, you're talking about audience, and it's something that whenever I'm on social media or um checking things, I can tell if um an organization or a brand or whatever is really making effort to reach their audience. I can tell because once you're a communications person, you just have those skills. Yes. I know, I know that you've done a lot of background work, like you said, Jessica. Uh you've done a lot of work in determining your audience and telling their those stories. And uh I just want to say uh say to our listeners, like uh your audience, they're communicating with you, they're talking to you, they're they're saying something from all the all greens. You see that you pull something and then uh um they don't react to it, you don't see a lot of reach, you don't and you know they don't like it, then you switch things up, and then you know they're talking, it's a relationship. If people were just thinking outside that box that it's not a one-way information, and it's just yeah, you know, you're communicating, you're communicating. So audience, that's really important because that's the start of everything. So knowing your audience and how's that shape your work within from your history, understanding that um the stories you want to share, you want to include, be inclusive, uh, show the diversity of uh the people in Saskatchewan. So, how's that uh changed the way you look at your audience and find a way to appeal to them and attract them? Because for me, as a black person, if I don't see myself represented in something, sometimes I'm in not wanting to engage with it, right? Absolutely. Yeah, so how what if you if you can share any stories? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Sure. Um, I'll start and then I I wonder if Kristen agrees with me, but uh one of the main things that comes to mind for me over my work with the organization is really um not being so focused on serving our members, and that may be counterintuitive. Um, but in order, we have a very um uh distinct, you know, demographic of members, and we really, really, really want to grow that and diversify that. But in order to do that, we can't just focus on serving the stories, the needs of those members only. And so thinking outside of the box and really um getting over the anxiety of thinking that we are only we only exist to serve that certain per population, right? So like um, and and really stepping out and you know, putting ourselves out there in other activities to make sure that we're serving, you know, immigrant youth, to make sure that we're going getting into indigenous communities, etc. And to do that, we have to think beyond the membership. Um yeah, that's what really comes to mind. Uh Kristen, I don't know if you want to add to that.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Yeah, no, I think that that's a really good point. And um for me, I think our our membership is now more like because we're publicly, you know, we're funded through the lottery trust system, and so we're we're pure for public good, which means it has to be all the public. And I think I think our members understand that, and the people who really want to support us know that their membership is supporting the works that we do, even if we're not we're telling, because they they believe in that that mission as well. Like, I think I'm hoping the members that we attract are folks who just like good history and they like complete history and they like uh they're kind of the same mind as we are in that. And so um, yeah, so yeah, like Jessica was saying, we did have to not worry about it, it's just more thinking outside the box because it's not that our existing membership isn't interested in the diversity of stories, and if we sort of, you know, maybe rather hear many different stories besides ones that just reflect like a certain type of history, and so um, I think it's more exciting and interesting, and I think um, and our members, the ones that stick with us and keep buying the membership year after year, which is not just getting you the magazine, but also just supporting the work that we do. I think those folks understand us, and and that's kind of who we want to have supporting us, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Has there been any way you've um started, you know, thinking about other platforms or other ways of showcasing those stories instead of just like the regular ways you would have done it, maybe on print and just post on social media are there like any creative ways you've uh uh you've um done anything so that you can attract the younger folks. Because when we talk about history, uh you talk you when we talk about history, it's not just in the past, right? It's in the present, right? So how do we get to attract those younger audiences? Like get them in and get them interested in heritage and telling stories and telling uh their stories and all of that. So I think have you done anything um in a different way for us, for instance, uh podcast. This is something new for us. Um, something we did a few years back was TikTok, which was sort of new to us as well, because we wanted to reach that audience. So we just wanted to know if there was something else, something you could share that you've done.

SPEAKER_04 20:21

Um we haven't quite made it to TikTok yet, although that would be amazing. I think our experience with uh the youth work that we do, like in our our summer um sorry, but it's similar in uh youth camp that we do every summer, it seems like to me, like young people, you I find I have to ask them like what do you want? Like, what how do you want to be communicated with and what stories are most important to you? And and let the kids because our our storytelling, our program's specifically been about storytelling or art, and so letting young people tell their own stories in their own way and and knowing that however they choose to tell their story, that's okay, right? Um, and that their story is important. Um, that for me is seems to be our main way of connecting, and it's a very personal connection because we have an in-person connection with um with young people that way. Um, so yeah, maybe we should get on TikTok though.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

I will say that for TikTok, I this is something I run up against too in all of the work I do in history and humanities, is that you know, TikTok um requires a lot of labor to do it well. And Kristen is our only unpaid employee. We do sometimes have a summer student who I know Kristen, I think you want someone who's social media savvy this year, right?

SPEAKER_04 21:41

So maybe this is the year we do technology this year, not only maybe, but like someone who's like, Yes, I am social media.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Yeah. So I think this is just a an underlying underlying issue within the heritage sector, et cetera, in that we recognize that these are things that we need to do to reach. New audiences, but we are not given the funding or the capacity to expand into those areas, right? So it's a constant um issue and one that has not been figured out yet, I don't think, by many people. Um, and then just like we're always thinking of ways that we can take, you know, our print magazine, etc., and you know, uh mold it into something different, right? So not necessarily taking on more projects, but reconfiguring the things that we're already doing and figuring out, you know, because I I we do do our youth programming in the communities and stuff, but we haven't figured out how to try and like take that and and bring it into new members, etc. Like the the 14-year-old who attends our storytelling workshop is not necessarily a member at 25, you know, like so um I think that's still a challenge, but one that's worthy, and the only way we move forward is just by you know trying new things and um being in the community and doing the work that we're doing, doing the best we can and keep trying to get build more capacity, but thus is the the issue of the heritage sector.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

So adding to that, thinking differently about what engagement means. So if you have young people who are engaging in your program or maybe they are engaging with you on social media, but they'll never buy a membership. Um, but that's that doesn't mean that they're not connected to the organization or they're not being influenced by it.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

So yes, yeah, yeah, we've talked about that a lot.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Yeah, and it is such a big thing in the heritage sector. I found um I mentioned that I started following you guys on uh when I was in university, and that was I was you know at a time where I was trying to immerse myself. Which is a great fun. Because I was trying to find, yeah, I was trying to maybe get a bit more in the cultural sector and you know see what was out there, and it's discouraging as someone that was trying to go into communications that no one really seemed to be doing a lot of social media at the time. And uh even if they were, it was maybe just you know, posting a poster, whatever the most on the website, just straight on onto social media. And you know, yeah, as a young person, maybe that told me that you know I was not an audience that they were trying to reach, which is not the most encouraging. So yeah. So what would you say uh you've done uh to sort of shift towards using social media less as something that just broadcasts information in a straightforward way, and more as something that's relationship building and you know, a place for storytelling.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

Yeah. I could talk for hours on this. Yes. So um I think I think I should mention as well that so we've been able to be part of a pilot project with Susculture where we've had some mentorship with uh Tyler Baby of T Squirt Social. And so like previous to that mentorship, I would have said, like, well, I don't, I guess the only thing to do is just post more. Like and but so with no real strategy to it, just well, I guess make more posts. And so since I've had that mentorship, um, it's been fantastic. So everything that we do now that we've got in our plan that we have now, all of that comes out of conversations we had that were about our values and even like about our strategic plan and all the things that we stand for, what our philosophy is. And so every post in our monthly cycle comes out of, like in like actually I can show some of them directly how they go back to our strategic plan or to just our values and like yeah, who we stand for, what our philosophy is. And so it's yeah, it's just made a big, a big difference to be able to post that way because it um it feels a lot, feels exciting and and meaningful. Um, and yeah, like we're trying to build something. And then to get back to the relationships and stuff, I can going back to what we talked about before, and I wanted to add on um for Jessica, like when Jessica has been influential in the sense that she um really imparted to me her philosophy of social media, and which includes a lot of community building, and so having that as like that really opened my eyes to this sort of reciprocity of you're you're online and you meet somebody, you like their posts, and then they like your post. And then when you want to go and actually maybe work on a partnership or something, you kind of already know people because you've been following them with social media and they've been following you, and so it's just easier to connect with people and like other organizations in a way that I don't think would have been anything like as easy prior to the internet, I would say. Um, so and so that sort of community building aspect is something that Jessica has really brought to me and that I really took to heart and things I've learned from her. So yeah. I might have wandered on the question a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

No, I I think that, yeah, I just I just, you know, like it's social media. So if you're not social on it, then you're not using it as a tool, you're just using it as a message board. Um, and that doesn't build anything really, unless you already have like an enormous amount of social capital or wealth capital already. Like if you have a million followers, then sure, you can post a poster and then you know walk away. But most of us are not in that area. We need to be thinking, we have to be thinking about strategic strategically. And I think for those of us who aren't paid directly to, you know, do social media and deal with algorithms, et cetera, but most of that is just focused on reciprocity and really intentionally building relationships, like every interaction that you do on social media or otherwise online is is creating connection, right? A digital connection, both like you know, person to person, also you know, algorithm algorithmically. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

I I can follow up on that. So um before the commons mentorship, I think um, like you said, uh with Jessica's um support and all of that, there's we've seen work, the work that um SHFS was doing on socials. I like social I like social media for work. Let me be clear. But personally, you'll probably not find me so much doing on social media uh for my on my personal um platforms, but um for work, it's just like what you're saying, Christine. When you're tying it to your strategic um planning and values and that reciprocity, like you said, Jessica, community building, blah blah blah, it's important for folks to think about. And you didn't leave it as a last thing to do, it was important and thinking it through. And once someone can do that, it just makes the work so easy. Like when we, for instance, at SAS Culture do um a lot of our uh social media and communications planning as a team, it's like ah, we could do this, we could tie it to this, and it's just all those brilliant ideas and fantastic way you can build community online. Um, but going back to the mentorship, um I know there were a lot of learning and on learning and unlearning and trying new things and all this dog, and that's really what it's been for us as well. You know, you try new things, it doesn't work, you just know that okay, moving on, I gotta try something else. So, can you share some examples of you know those things you had to unlearn just so those one person organization or one um person communications can have a good understanding of what they might be doing that might not uh they may have to rethink, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

Yeah, I would say I learned a few different things that made it easier um um from Tyler. Like I one of the things that was really was very just blew my mind, but it just made things so much easier was that like understanding that because I'm in this every day, all day, something that seems really basic to me, I think, oh that's that's too that's too basic. Nobody's gonna be interested in that. But he's like, no, like people, people who are not in it all day long, that actually is interesting to them. So I can post things that are seem very basic, like, you know, do you remember that we have this on our website? Or um, you know, just start with folklore 101 and and people will be interested because um they may not have seen it before, even if I've posted something years ago. Um, there's tons of new people who wouldn't have seen it. So it's a little easier that way. And the other thing that was really big for me too was um giving myself permission to um I guess position, yeah, to allow myself in some ways to position myself as an expert. Like I never would have wanted to, like, I'm an archaeologist, so I'm not a trained historian or a trained folklorist, and so I never really wanted to sort of talk about folklore online or or position myself as an expert about it, but um, I do know enough to do these basic things, and so um, so just giving myself permission to be a bit of an expert and and say, Did you know about this and that? and that made it a little easier as well. Um, yeah, and also even to use things in my own voice. Like I've always to some extent have my own humor and stuff in our posts, but I have a post now where it's the introductory message to the month where I speak as myself, kind of not necessarily seriously, but you know, write a whole little text about what the month brings and stuff. And so to come forward as myself using my own voice and speaking as in the position of being the executive director, um, that was that was something that I never would have done, I think, um, without the little push to do that. And I so it's that was really interesting and eye-opening to me.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah. And in terms of capacity, there's you know, that's something like you said, Jessica, funding and you know, not having that capacity to do as much as you would want to. So how have you knowing what you know now? I know there are a lot of things you could be doing that you're not currently doing because of capacity, but how have you sort of like managed that and you know what would you I guess what would you hope for? Like if you had this person and what would you do? And but then how have you managed um to do this much with this capacity that you have currently?

SPEAKER_04 32:53

I would say when it first started, when I started working with Tyler, I knew that I was gonna have to just block off time every month to prepare the posts and and be strict with that. And I thought the same thing with like our financial package, right? Like I have a day that's blocked off for that, and like the day can move around, but I have to have that day. And so the same thing is with the social media, I I have to block the time off. Um, and so so to me, it feels like the job that I started at 10 years ago is a little, it looks is different now, which is exciting. Yet your job can evolve, and it's a little more structured in that way now, um, in the sense that you know I have certain things that happen in a round in a cycle that are a bit predictable and time blocked off for those and stuff. And so, but I knew I had to do that, and I knew also the way I was doing it before, um, just just posting lots. I was just relying on my own excitement and creativity, which we talked about this, Tyler and I, when we first started. Like that's fun, but it's not a good way to build a whole strategy because if you're not feeling it someday or you're tired, it's gonna be hard. And so do trying to keep up social media just on my own, you know, creativity and excitement all the way, all the time, got to be hard. But but doing it this way, which has a bit of a more standardized format where there's still plenty of room to be creative and do something spontaneous when you have the time and when you feel like it. Um, but just being able to have some of those set posts that are a little easier to construct, but still block off the time for them. Um, that made a big a big difference. So anyway, going back to the job seeming a bit more structured now is for me is a good thing as someone who's getting a little older now. And like when I first started, I I wouldn't you know you wouldn't know what you were working on in a given month, which was and now that I'm a little older, um, I still like creative problem solving and those kinds of things, but it's also nice to have a bit of structure so that you're not creative problem solving all day every day, just some of the time. So it's so it's it's a it's been an interesting evolution. It's nice to have a job evolve.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Um you're being amazing, honestly. I shouldn't just put that out there.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

And I can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Um, as um someone you can go to to check things, wait, and you know it's just it's amazing having that one person with that communication background on your board that you could, you know, ask questions and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

So yeah. Uh for other organizations uh in the heritage or cultural sector that uh you know are feeling that something needs to change uh but are not sure where to start, what would you uh recommend? Do you have any tips or even yeah, why would you say this is uh you know, communications and embracing these new channels is something that's uh important for heritage workers?

SPEAKER_03 35:44

I would say that definitely what Krista has worked on in getting a plan that it works within your capacity so that you're you know exactly the baseline, like the baseline is always so important and having boundaries built into the baseline because the thing with communications, and I do this every day, is that you have to have boundaries, or you could work on it like 60 hours a week and still not produce as much as you want to produce. So you have to have those those standards in place and to think about it really thoughtfully, um, which I'm I'm really excited that Kristen's been able to do that a lot more um in the last several months. Um and also just not too to me, like I think that not hesitating, like I think that there um is sometimes a stigma with other heritage like professionals that I've not uh worked with or or had conversations with, where they're just like they don't feel like they belong in digital spaces or what have you. They're just like that's not for me. Which okay, fine if you absolutely don't want to engage, cool, but but we need to show up in these spaces. We need to show there they are they are physical, they're not physical spaces, but they're digital spaces. So just like we need to get into physical rooms and be there and claim our space, we need to do that in the digital space as well, um, and not just like quarter ourselves into our own sectors, you know, like uh build personal connections uh within heritage, but outside of it, you know, show up at the Pride event, show up at the tech fair, you know, and don't wait to be invited, just like come in and make those connections. And like heritage is something that truly like interconnects with every single thing around us, like everything, right? Um, and I I think we need not be afraid to make those connections for people who aren't thinking about these issues day in and day out. Um, Kristen, do you have anything to add?

SPEAKER_04 37:43

Oh yeah, well, just that like you know, the world needs public history, right? Like there's because history, everything is the way it is for a reason, having to do with its history. And so it's just helps to explain the world as it is now so much to know the history. And so those kinds of communications need to get out there. And I think also to add like letting go of perfection, like letting go of being worried that you're gonna say the wrong thing, or you know, you make the post and the post is gone. Like, so yeah, it's gonna go I I know I need to do this too. Like, I I write little novels and probably make my text way too long and fuss too much over my graphics still. I'm still working on that. Like I can make the post a lot simpler just to be able to stay within you know the time frame I have a little bit, and I know I have to, but so letting go of perfection, letting go of um yeah, thinking that you have to come up with something earth shaking rather than just like just because it's kind of being there, being in a space and being ready to engage and just chat and have fun on yeah, with the people that are there because it's it really is about building that community. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

And thank you so much for joining us and sharing your experience so generously. I think that there is a lot here that so many could benefit from.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

We go on and on. Yeah, that's true, yes. Thank you so much. Thank you for um for being here and joining us for this conversation. I'm sure that a lot will benefit from it. Um, sometimes when we talk heritage, it's like what Hannah Christina was saying about attract like she was looking for something that really attracts um that was attracted to her as a younger person, and she didn't find that. So I just think a lot of organizations, not just heritage organizations, need to think outside that, outside the box, especially with a change in demographic and you know the younger people are coming up, and you know, we just need to keep that in mind. How do we get to them now? I guess uh there's a word uh catch them young. I don't know if that word is still uh useful now, but it's like how do we get to them and share um create platforms, um, multiple platforms. And to be fair, I'm still sort of old school. I like buy. Like I printed, we printed all of this in other questions, but I'm still old school. Yeah, but um in some ways, some of us still like to digest information um online, some some in some ways. So um thank you again for um stretching. That's how I know the capacity part is there, but thank you for stretching and thank you for doing all the great work.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

So, yeah, that's all I just wanted to say. Thank you for having us. This was wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Thank you, Anna Christina. That was a great conversation. We could go on and on, and just like Jessica suggested, I might think of a part two. Really, uh, whether it's family stories, community stories, or history, the goal is always the same. To keep those stories alive and to pass them on in ways that make sense for the people listening. And that's what SHFS has been doing. It's kind of like figuring out to tell a story to a three-year-old and open its text. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, keep sharing your stories.